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Ferri: 'There Are No Average Investors'

The financial advisor and asset-allocation specialist discusses conflicts in advice-giving, which asset classes he avoids, and "factor renters."

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Our guest today on The Long View podcast is Rick Ferri. Ferri is an hourly fee-only investment consultant at Ferri Investment Solutions; he's also a CFA charterholder. Prior to starting his new firm in April 2019, he was the founder and head of investing at a $1.5 billion advisory firm that specialized in low-fee asset management using index funds and exchange-traded funds. Prior to that, he worked for a brokerage firm, where he was an early adopter of inexpensive index products for client portfolios. Ferri is a Marine Corps officer and retired fighter pilot.

Ferri has written several books on low-fee investing, including All About Asset Allocation, The ETF Book, All About Index Funds, and The Power of Passive Investing. He has also authored numerous investment-related articles and research papers, including a research paper on index investing that won S&P Dow Jones Indices' third-annual SPIVA Award.

Introduction and Background

"The conversation about asset allocation comes later, and the conversation about investments comes after that." Ferri discusses how his definition of value-add has changed over the past 10-15 years. (0:55-3:24)

"I've been through the whole gantlet." Transitioning from broker to Registered Investment Advisor. (3:25-5:14)

On clients who have needs that go beyond investment management. (5:15-5:56)

"You get the work done, you pay for the work." Why Ferri's new advisory practice charges clients by the hour, not by their assets under management. (5:57-9:44)

"Advisors talk about how they add value behaviorally; I think a lot of that is created by the advisor and not so much by the client." The role of advisors in managing client behavior. (9:45-11:12)

Asset Allocation

"There are no average investors." How investors of the same age can vary widely in their appetite for equity risk. (11:13-15:03)

"Those are the things that are going to add value to a client's portfolio." Focusing on keeping taxes and investment costs down, not trying to play factors. (15:03-18:21)

"There seem to be a lot of factor renters, rather than factor owners." Ferri is skeptical that factor investing will outperform in the future. (18:23-20:44)

"I don't use anything that doesn't have an expected real return." Why Ferri sticks with plain-vanilla asset classes. (20:45-21:56)

How to go about making return assumptions for the major asset classes. (21:57-24:14)

"It depends on how much money the client has." A total bond market index as a one-stop option for fixed-income exposure. (24:15-27:20)

International bonds as a core asset class. (27:21-28:46)

"I don't think they're pivotal." REITs as a direct allocation. (28:47-31:45)

Decumulation "The software doesn't seem to be very good at this." Decumulation is inherently more complicated and customized than accumulation. (31:46-34:19)

"There seem to be better ways of doing it than the classic way in which we've been taught." On whether the traditional declining equity glide path makes sense. (34:20-39:28)

Indexing and the Legacy of Jack Bogle "It's been around forever." Direct indexing: the wave of the future? (39:29-42:09)

"I don't see it as big of a threat as other people do." Should investors be worried about concentration in very few ETFs, and do index funds and ETFs own too much of the market? (42:10-44:07)

"I was having a real moral dilemma." How influential Jack Bogle was in shaping Ferri's career path. (44:08-46:08)

About the Podcast: The Long View is a podcast from Morningstar. Each week, hosts Christine Benz and Jeff Ptak conduct an in-depth discussion with a thought leader from the world of investing or personal finance. The podcast is produced by George Castady and Scott Halver.

About the Hosts: Christine Benz and Jeff Ptak have been analysts and commentators on investments and the investment industry for many years. Christine is Morningstar's director of personal finance and senior columnist for Morningstar.com. Jeff is head of global manager research for Morningstar Research Services, overseeing Morningstar's team of 120 manager research analysts in the U.S. and overseas.

To Share Feedback or a Guest Idea: Write us at TheLongView@morningstar.com

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About the Authors

Christine Benz

Director
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Christine Benz is director of personal finance and retirement planning for Morningstar, Inc. In that role, she focuses on retirement and portfolio planning for individual investors. She also co-hosts a podcast for Morningstar, The Long View, which features in-depth interviews with thought leaders in investing and personal finance.

Benz joined Morningstar in 1993. Before assuming her current role she served as a mutual fund analyst and headed up Morningstar’s team of fund researchers in the U.S. She also served as editor of Morningstar Mutual Funds and Morningstar FundInvestor.

She is a frequent public speaker and is widely quoted in the media, including The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Barron’s, CNBC, and PBS. In 2020, Barron’s named her to its inaugural list of the 100 most influential women in finance; she appeared on the 2021 list as well. In 2021, Barron’s named her as one of the 10 most influential women in wealth management.

She holds a bachelor’s degree in political science and Russian language from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

Jeffrey Ptak

Chief Ratings Officer, Research
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Jeffrey Ptak, CFA, is chief ratings officer for Morningstar Research Services LLC, a wholly owned subsidiary of Morningstar, Inc.

Before assuming his current role, Ptak was head of global manager research. Previously, he was president and chief investment officer of Morningstar Investment Services, Inc., an investment unit that provides managed portfolio services through fee-based, independent financial advisors, for six years. Ptak joined Morningstar in 2002 as a senior mutual fund analyst and has also served as director of exchange-traded fund analysis, editor of Morningstar ETFInvestor, and an equity analyst. He briefly left Morningstar to become an investment products analyst for William Blair & Company, and earlier in his career, he was a manager for Arthur Andersen.

Ptak also co-hosts The Long View podcast with Morningstar's director of personal finance and retirement planning, Christine Benz. A full episode list is available here: https://www.morningstar.com/podcasts/the-long-view. You can find him on social media at syouth1 (X/fka 'Twitter') and he's also active on LinkedIn.

Ptak holds a bachelor’s degree in accounting from the University of Wisconsin and the Chartered Financial Analyst® designation.

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